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	<title>Comments on: Stop Listening to Security People: Focus On The Why Rather Than The What</title>
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		<title>By: WhiteHouse.Gov and NASDAQ.com Website Under Attack &#8230; What&#8217;s The Big Deal? &#171; Impacta Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.impactalabs.com/2009/02/11/stop-listening-to-security-people-focus-on-the-why-rather-than-the-what/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>WhiteHouse.Gov and NASDAQ.com Website Under Attack &#8230; What&#8217;s The Big Deal? &#171; Impacta Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.impactalabs.com/?p=338#comment-178</guid>
		<description>[...] but often we focus too heavily on the the what rather than the why.  I previously wrote a post on how prioritize risk (the why), which boiled down [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] but often we focus too heavily on the the what rather than the why.  I previously wrote a post on how prioritize risk (the why), which boiled down [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Lam (IMPACTA)</title>
		<link>http://blog.impactalabs.com/2009/02/11/stop-listening-to-security-people-focus-on-the-why-rather-than-the-what/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Lam (IMPACTA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.impactalabs.com/?p=338#comment-160</guid>
		<description>Hey Wade, 

I think we might be on the same page, but if not I still appreciate that you took the time to speak up and voice your opinions and thoughts.

You&#039;re right about security folks analyze for for technical exposures, and to some degree they need to also indicate what the technical impact that exposure might create. My point in one sentence was to ensure that the business impact (the why) and technical impact (the what) were aligned.  Again I think we&#039;re more aligned than it appears.  Again, good stuff!

--Kevin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Wade, </p>
<p>I think we might be on the same page, but if not I still appreciate that you took the time to speak up and voice your opinions and thoughts.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right about security folks analyze for for technical exposures, and to some degree they need to also indicate what the technical impact that exposure might create. My point in one sentence was to ensure that the business impact (the why) and technical impact (the what) were aligned.  Again I think we&#8217;re more aligned than it appears.  Again, good stuff!</p>
<p>&#8211;Kevin</p>
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		<title>By: Wade Bicknell</title>
		<link>http://blog.impactalabs.com/2009/02/11/stop-listening-to-security-people-focus-on-the-why-rather-than-the-what/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Wade Bicknell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.impactalabs.com/?p=338#comment-158</guid>
		<description>I had to really think about what you were saying for a while; because I believe what you have done is mixed several unrelated activities together.  While I appreciate you’re sensationalizing the article with an outlandish headline to get readers to read (hey, it worked on me), the premise of the article is simply flawed.

Security professionals who run tools do not make business strategy recommendations.  They usually deliver technical details on the potential exposures and explanation as to how to address them from a technical perspective.  It is their job to deliver every single potential exposure as a finding (after verifying these findings are not type 1 or type 2 errors), not to judge exposures for impact. 

Senior management within organizations needs to review these findings and align those vulnerabilities to mission-based risk and decide if the exposure is worth mitigating (usually via an impact and cost-benefit analysis).   This step is done (or should be done might be more appropriate), by those within the organization with knowledge of the mission goals and can understand the hazard these findings may present to those goals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had to really think about what you were saying for a while; because I believe what you have done is mixed several unrelated activities together.  While I appreciate you’re sensationalizing the article with an outlandish headline to get readers to read (hey, it worked on me), the premise of the article is simply flawed.</p>
<p>Security professionals who run tools do not make business strategy recommendations.  They usually deliver technical details on the potential exposures and explanation as to how to address them from a technical perspective.  It is their job to deliver every single potential exposure as a finding (after verifying these findings are not type 1 or type 2 errors), not to judge exposures for impact. </p>
<p>Senior management within organizations needs to review these findings and align those vulnerabilities to mission-based risk and decide if the exposure is worth mitigating (usually via an impact and cost-benefit analysis).   This step is done (or should be done might be more appropriate), by those within the organization with knowledge of the mission goals and can understand the hazard these findings may present to those goals.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Lam (IMPACTA)</title>
		<link>http://blog.impactalabs.com/2009/02/11/stop-listening-to-security-people-focus-on-the-why-rather-than-the-what/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Lam (IMPACTA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.impactalabs.com/?p=338#comment-156</guid>
		<description>Hey MM, I am glad you enjoyed the article and thanks for leaving your comments!  A lot of people have commented (and some flamed :P) that what I was talking about is business common sense, but often times it&#039;s these small things that have big impact!  Thanks again! 

--Kevin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey MM, I am glad you enjoyed the article and thanks for leaving your comments!  A lot of people have commented (and some flamed :P) that what I was talking about is business common sense, but often times it&#8217;s these small things that have big impact!  Thanks again! </p>
<p>&#8211;Kevin</p>
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		<title>By: MM</title>
		<link>http://blog.impactalabs.com/2009/02/11/stop-listening-to-security-people-focus-on-the-why-rather-than-the-what/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>MM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.impactalabs.com/?p=338#comment-155</guid>
		<description>Kevin,
Your article was spot on, the business criteria or requirements are often not considered by what I&#039;ll call the Security &quot;purist&quot; when recommending a new security approach. I&#039;ve lived through many of the consequences you outlined when a purist approach is taken, resulting ultimately in a diminished role of the Security group. Good job.

MM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,<br />
Your article was spot on, the business criteria or requirements are often not considered by what I&#8217;ll call the Security &#8220;purist&#8221; when recommending a new security approach. I&#8217;ve lived through many of the consequences you outlined when a purist approach is taken, resulting ultimately in a diminished role of the Security group. Good job.</p>
<p>MM</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Lam (IMPACTA)</title>
		<link>http://blog.impactalabs.com/2009/02/11/stop-listening-to-security-people-focus-on-the-why-rather-than-the-what/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Lam (IMPACTA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.impactalabs.com/?p=338#comment-152</guid>
		<description>Hey Gerard thanks for the comment and post!  Interestingly enough, I am part of your profession (I am an information security professional as well) too; however I apologize that you (or anyone else) felt disrespected, I believe there was one other guy on LinkedIn who was none too happy.  

You&#039;re right, we should not stop listening to our security vendors 100%. My point was simply to state that when we&#039;re making business decisions based off security risks, those decisions should be based on a variety of information and not just security (the WHAT).  Security is just an input, not the only input. As someone who used to work for a corporation (the customer) and now as a security vendor, I&#039;ve seen and helped my own customers from making the mistake of making a business decision just because something pops up on a vulnerability scanner (i.e., what I am saying is not the final decision, just another input for you to make a good business decision).  My intent was to share this small, but important point with the community at large even though it&#039;s common sense, as you pointed out, for most.  Maybe &quot;Focus More on the Why Rather Than Solely The What&quot; would have made more sense, moot point now :P  

Thanks again for taking the time to post, 

--Kevin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Gerard thanks for the comment and post!  Interestingly enough, I am part of your profession (I am an information security professional as well) too; however I apologize that you (or anyone else) felt disrespected, I believe there was one other guy on LinkedIn who was none too happy.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, we should not stop listening to our security vendors 100%. My point was simply to state that when we&#8217;re making business decisions based off security risks, those decisions should be based on a variety of information and not just security (the WHAT).  Security is just an input, not the only input. As someone who used to work for a corporation (the customer) and now as a security vendor, I&#8217;ve seen and helped my own customers from making the mistake of making a business decision just because something pops up on a vulnerability scanner (i.e., what I am saying is not the final decision, just another input for you to make a good business decision).  My intent was to share this small, but important point with the community at large even though it&#8217;s common sense, as you pointed out, for most.  Maybe &#8220;Focus More on the Why Rather Than Solely The What&#8221; would have made more sense, moot point now :P  </p>
<p>Thanks again for taking the time to post, </p>
<p>&#8211;Kevin</p>
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		<title>By: Gerard</title>
		<link>http://blog.impactalabs.com/2009/02/11/stop-listening-to-security-people-focus-on-the-why-rather-than-the-what/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.impactalabs.com/?p=338#comment-151</guid>
		<description>I think your opening statement &quot;Stop Listening to Security People&quot; is misleading, incorrect, and disrespectful to information security professionals everywhere.  Pause for a moment, in this world of cyber-criminality just think where this world would be without information security people.  I would suggest most businesses would not be in operation.

I am a security professional and have been for nearly 10 years now. In matters concerning risk it is my ethical duty to present risk in such a way that provides the client with a clear &quot;understanding&quot; of it and the &quot;capability&quot; to consider the most appropriate solution.  My primary security approach is to be a business enabler, not disabler.  Too much security cripples business through indirect cost and loss.  Most of my colleagues sing from this same hymn book.  

Here are my professions Code of Ethics Preamble: 

Safety of the commonwealth, duty to our principals, and to each other requires that we adhere, and be seen to adhere, to the highest ethical standards of behavior. 
Therefore, strict adherence to this Code is a condition of certification. 

Code of Ethics Canons: 
Protect society, the commonwealth, and the infrastructure. 
Act honorably, honestly, justly, responsibly, and legally. 
Provide diligent and competent service to principals. 
Advance and protect the profession.

Are there vulchers out there?  Of course!  But they&#039;re in every facet of business, not just information security.  

Companies that hire security vendors should consider the WHAT they are trying to accomplish.  WHAT risk are they trying to counter.  Then assess they WHY.  Once your done you have the pavement to get to the HOW, which will lead to the WHO and the WHEN.  Perform the appropriate comparative analysis and research on similar products to ensure the right product fit.  That&#039;s just common business sense.

The title of your article may turn heads, but it doesn&#039;t fit with your story and is disrespectful to my profession.  You may want to consider changing it to &quot;Why you shouldn&#039;t throw all your eggs in one basket&quot; since the article has more to do with business ethics than Information Security. 

I digress...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your opening statement &#8220;Stop Listening to Security People&#8221; is misleading, incorrect, and disrespectful to information security professionals everywhere.  Pause for a moment, in this world of cyber-criminality just think where this world would be without information security people.  I would suggest most businesses would not be in operation.</p>
<p>I am a security professional and have been for nearly 10 years now. In matters concerning risk it is my ethical duty to present risk in such a way that provides the client with a clear &#8220;understanding&#8221; of it and the &#8220;capability&#8221; to consider the most appropriate solution.  My primary security approach is to be a business enabler, not disabler.  Too much security cripples business through indirect cost and loss.  Most of my colleagues sing from this same hymn book.  </p>
<p>Here are my professions Code of Ethics Preamble: </p>
<p>Safety of the commonwealth, duty to our principals, and to each other requires that we adhere, and be seen to adhere, to the highest ethical standards of behavior.<br />
Therefore, strict adherence to this Code is a condition of certification. </p>
<p>Code of Ethics Canons:<br />
Protect society, the commonwealth, and the infrastructure.<br />
Act honorably, honestly, justly, responsibly, and legally.<br />
Provide diligent and competent service to principals.<br />
Advance and protect the profession.</p>
<p>Are there vulchers out there?  Of course!  But they&#8217;re in every facet of business, not just information security.  </p>
<p>Companies that hire security vendors should consider the WHAT they are trying to accomplish.  WHAT risk are they trying to counter.  Then assess they WHY.  Once your done you have the pavement to get to the HOW, which will lead to the WHO and the WHEN.  Perform the appropriate comparative analysis and research on similar products to ensure the right product fit.  That&#8217;s just common business sense.</p>
<p>The title of your article may turn heads, but it doesn&#8217;t fit with your story and is disrespectful to my profession.  You may want to consider changing it to &#8220;Why you shouldn&#8217;t throw all your eggs in one basket&#8221; since the article has more to do with business ethics than Information Security. </p>
<p>I digress&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Lam (IMPACTA)</title>
		<link>http://blog.impactalabs.com/2009/02/11/stop-listening-to-security-people-focus-on-the-why-rather-than-the-what/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Lam (IMPACTA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.impactalabs.com/?p=338#comment-150</guid>
		<description>Hi Rieks, thanks for the comment and nice post!  With regulation/compliancy sometimes you don&#039;t get a choice as to what you can or cannot fix, but sometmes you do (i.e, you&#039;re not under regulation, or there is flexibility within regulation). When you do have that choice, then it&#039;s in my opinion that business owners should be making sure that security decisions are aligned to their business objectives is really at the core of my point, which I think fits nicely into your &quot;facing a dilemma&quot;/&quot;not having a choice&quot; model.  The notion of security signals as how you explained it is also really interesting, definitely got me thinking now ;P

Thanks again for your post Rieks!

--Kevin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rieks, thanks for the comment and nice post!  With regulation/compliancy sometimes you don&#8217;t get a choice as to what you can or cannot fix, but sometmes you do (i.e, you&#8217;re not under regulation, or there is flexibility within regulation). When you do have that choice, then it&#8217;s in my opinion that business owners should be making sure that security decisions are aligned to their business objectives is really at the core of my point, which I think fits nicely into your &#8220;facing a dilemma&#8221;/&#8221;not having a choice&#8221; model.  The notion of security signals as how you explained it is also really interesting, definitely got me thinking now ;P</p>
<p>Thanks again for your post Rieks!</p>
<p>&#8211;Kevin</p>
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		<title>By: Rieks Joosten</title>
		<link>http://blog.impactalabs.com/2009/02/11/stop-listening-to-security-people-focus-on-the-why-rather-than-the-what/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Rieks Joosten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 08:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.impactalabs.com/?p=338#comment-149</guid>
		<description>Nice story, Kevin, very nice metaphor as well. Thanks.

Bruce Tucker said: &quot;Companies and agencies can not just &#039;choose&#039; what should be fixed if they want to be compliant with HIPPA, GLB, SOX etc.&quot; Of course, he&#039;s right. However, they CAN choose whether or not they want to be (fully) compliant with HIPPA, GLB, SOX etc. Of course, as with any choice, you get to suffer the consequences. 

In my opinion, there&#039;s a difference between &quot;not having a choice&quot; and &quot;facing a dilemma&quot;. A month or so ago, the Dutch health inspection published a report stating that in many hospitals, username/passwords (U/PWs) were not treated as it should (people would know each others credentials, or they would be written down). I think that this signal, as any other signal of violations of commonly used security policies or practices, should be addressed. To me, addressing such a security signal differs from &quot;going for the first solution that makes the signal go away&quot;. People do things for reasons, even if you&#039;re not aware of that. You need to find this motivation, and then find a solution that both accommodates for this motivation, and makes the signal go away. Employees of a hospital told me that abiding by the security policy with respect to U/PWs, they get to put off operations once in a while because e.g. the artificial hip wasn&#039;t available in time for the operation, the cause of which was that the person with appropriate permissions for the ordering system had fallen ill, or got an accident. Putting off an operation not only provides (psychological) damage to patients (if not worse), but also disrupts the primary process, and lowers the staff&#039;s morale, and there&#039;s this waiting list for patients that they need to shorten... Their solution (in general, people know pretty well how situations can be solved) however could not be implemented in the ordering system. 

So here it is: there is a signal saying that U/PWs are not handled securely. There can be (at least within the operating theater of one hospital), good reasons for this. In this case, addressing the issue is making (business) choices, which is not just a business privilege, but a business obligation, specifically in what is perceived as a dilemma. Security signals are just messages to telling the business that once again it&#039;s time to make some choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice story, Kevin, very nice metaphor as well. Thanks.</p>
<p>Bruce Tucker said: &#8220;Companies and agencies can not just &#8216;choose&#8217; what should be fixed if they want to be compliant with HIPPA, GLB, SOX etc.&#8221; Of course, he&#8217;s right. However, they CAN choose whether or not they want to be (fully) compliant with HIPPA, GLB, SOX etc. Of course, as with any choice, you get to suffer the consequences. </p>
<p>In my opinion, there&#8217;s a difference between &#8220;not having a choice&#8221; and &#8220;facing a dilemma&#8221;. A month or so ago, the Dutch health inspection published a report stating that in many hospitals, username/passwords (U/PWs) were not treated as it should (people would know each others credentials, or they would be written down). I think that this signal, as any other signal of violations of commonly used security policies or practices, should be addressed. To me, addressing such a security signal differs from &#8220;going for the first solution that makes the signal go away&#8221;. People do things for reasons, even if you&#8217;re not aware of that. You need to find this motivation, and then find a solution that both accommodates for this motivation, and makes the signal go away. Employees of a hospital told me that abiding by the security policy with respect to U/PWs, they get to put off operations once in a while because e.g. the artificial hip wasn&#8217;t available in time for the operation, the cause of which was that the person with appropriate permissions for the ordering system had fallen ill, or got an accident. Putting off an operation not only provides (psychological) damage to patients (if not worse), but also disrupts the primary process, and lowers the staff&#8217;s morale, and there&#8217;s this waiting list for patients that they need to shorten&#8230; Their solution (in general, people know pretty well how situations can be solved) however could not be implemented in the ordering system. </p>
<p>So here it is: there is a signal saying that U/PWs are not handled securely. There can be (at least within the operating theater of one hospital), good reasons for this. In this case, addressing the issue is making (business) choices, which is not just a business privilege, but a business obligation, specifically in what is perceived as a dilemma. Security signals are just messages to telling the business that once again it&#8217;s time to make some choices.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Lam (IMPACTA)</title>
		<link>http://blog.impactalabs.com/2009/02/11/stop-listening-to-security-people-focus-on-the-why-rather-than-the-what/#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Lam (IMPACTA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.impactalabs.com/?p=338#comment-138</guid>
		<description>Vijay, apologies for approving your comment late (your comment made it into the spam filter so I didn&#039;t see it until recently).  Regardless, thanks for taking the time to post and share. You make a good point about businesses and calculated risk.  There&#039;s risk that we as business owners have calculated and addressed in some way, and then there are those that we have not.  Then to mix that bunch up even more, there&#039;s also perceived risk versus actual.  Good stuff!

--Kevin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vijay, apologies for approving your comment late (your comment made it into the spam filter so I didn&#8217;t see it until recently).  Regardless, thanks for taking the time to post and share. You make a good point about businesses and calculated risk.  There&#8217;s risk that we as business owners have calculated and addressed in some way, and then there are those that we have not.  Then to mix that bunch up even more, there&#8217;s also perceived risk versus actual.  Good stuff!</p>
<p>&#8211;Kevin</p>
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